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Post by Damian on Nov 23, 2015 12:02:52 GMT 10
This is a discussion further to the development log Undead Animal Minions The truth is I am stuck and I need your help to work out how undead animals fit into Lord Of Decay. Here are the 2 problems with the current design as I see it. Problem 1: Strategic ValueWe carefully crafted the current set of minion classes that have different values in combat and when interacting with environment based on weapon type. The intention is to make gameplay more interesting and more varied by providing specific tactical advantages and disadvantages per minion class. If you missed those entries you can read more about the Character Classes and Dynamic EnvironmentSo the question is, what advantage do undead animals have that compliment other minion classes? - How do they perform differently in combat?
- How do they interact with the environment?
- Why would you choose an undead animal minion over another class of minion?
Problem 2: BalancingIn many ways it makes sense that undead animals are weaker than humanoid minions, but it seems to me that they are immediately devalued in this way. Undead animals are probably doomed to be discarded and never used again after the player has amassed enough souls to reanimate as many humanoids as they want. It is likely that players would only ever reanimate animals because humanoids are too expensive? The other alternative is that players would only ever reanimate humanoids as the animals are too weak to be useful? So here is the fun part. This is where you come in and save the day as honorary game designers. You tell me how you see undead animal minions in your horde. What excites you about having undead animals? What abilities do they have? What types of undead animals do you want to see? Is there another game you have played that got undead animal minions "right"? You can modify my design or throw it out and dream up something completely new. All ideas are welcome. Nothing is off limits. This is just like the Mighty Steeds feature. If we can't make it work together it will be scrapped from the game. There is no room for dead features in Lord Of Decay. Good luck, designers  |
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Post by folklore on Dec 4, 2015 13:04:39 GMT 10
Personally I do like the idea of undead animals to command, and while a undead wolf or even bear might be weaker then an armed humanoid minion. I certainly wouldn't think they'd be any weaker necessarily then a regular zombie. In particular I could see a necromancer getting bonuses to controlling/commanding a pack of reanimated wolves(it is how they worked instinctively in life, and the necromancer could take advantage of that).
What I really would like to see is taking some undead animals, and with flesh crafting turn them into a hand made familiar. The familiar could act independently of the necromancer, and expand the range of casting spells if its not under direct attack.
Just the scenario of a necromancer sending in a crow, or rat minion into a heavily fortified city to reanimate the dead inside.
I don't remember if you covered it yet, but do minions have trouble crossing rivers?
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Post by Damian on Dec 4, 2015 15:00:10 GMT 10
Personally I do like the idea of undead animals to command, and while a undead wolf or even bear might be weaker then an armed humanoid minion. I certainly wouldn't think they'd be any weaker necessarily then a regular zombie. In particular I could see a necromancer getting bonuses to controlling/commanding a pack of reanimated wolves(it is how they worked instinctively in life, and the necromancer could take advantage of that). What I really would like to see is taking some undead animals, and with flesh crafting turn them into a hand made familiar. The familiar could act independently of the necromancer, and expand the range of casting spells if its not under direct attack. Just the scenario of a necromancer sending in a crow, or rat minion into a heavily fortified city to reanimate the dead inside. I don't remember if you covered it yet, but do minions have trouble crossing rivers? These are all great ideas. I like that the wolves would work as a pack even in death. I had not considered that (and it makes AI a lot simpler  Your selected Void Champion is kind of a familiar in the game's current design, but you're idea about a familiar that enhances spell casting abilities is really good. When you talk about a "hand made familiar" are you suggesting that you can create some kind of crazy hybrid with the body of a rat, feet of a crow, wings of a bat, etc. Popular undead lore states that undead avoid running water and we have a story that supports the undead's fear of water. I'm excited about creating game areas that mean you need to take another route to keep your horde with you and other areas that you are forced to go on alone for a time before rejoining your horde. The short answer is, no they cannot cross running water. |
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kole
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Post by kole on Dec 14, 2015 7:38:28 GMT 10
How do they perform differently in combat & Why would you choose an undead animal minion over another class of minion? I imagine that they could potentially fulfill a bit of a utility role in some manner (as you mentioned a bit in your animal minions post). Perhaps some animals would be able to restrain/pin (bear) an enemy and a pack of others (wolves) would get flanking bonuses either for the PC or for other minions. Or provide debuffs/buffs. Maybe raising a hawk & then able to switch your vision to theirs to get a better lay of the land. Some kind of burrowing animal to dig through the terrain… either to stealth past certain things or set traps. I'd consider animals a nice way of providing a way to augment your own powers & those of the minions you specifically animate. Another strategic option in the arsenal |
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Post by Darth Cameroth on Jan 10, 2016 20:56:51 GMT 10
Hey i recently just came here from Modde/Indiedb and i am very interested in your game, especially as a fan of the old Overlord games. I am thinking that perhaps you could combine undead animals and humans to make some mounted units or maybe combine them in some other way to make some nasty undead monsters like undead werewolves or something. Aside from that i really like Kole's idea about utility roles, perhaps something like an undead bear might not do too much damage because undead animals are weaker but it could absorb some damage and attract people into attacking it because of the threat that i would appear to pose as a nasty looking zombie bear.
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Post by Damian on Jan 11, 2016 14:26:05 GMT 10
Hey i recently just came here from Modde/Indiedb and i am very interested in your game, especially as a fan of the old Overlord games. I am thinking that perhaps you could combine undead animals and humans to make some mounted units or maybe combine them in some other way to make some nasty undead monsters like undead werewolves or something. Aside from that i really like Kole's idea about utility roles, perhaps something like an undead bear might not do too much damage because undead animals are weaker but it could absorb some damage and attract people into attacking it because of the threat that i would appear to pose as a nasty looking zombie bear. Hi Darth Cameroth. Great to have you aboard. I like the utility idea put forward by kole too. It makes sense to alter behaviour and I already know how I'm going to alter the AI. e.g. Threat levels, commander auras, formations, tactics, etc. Regarding player mounts, we addressed that concept in the dev log Mighty Steeds. Short answer is we are not doing mounts. Sorry I love the idea of merging undead classes. I'll have to think about how that changes their appearance or alters their statistics. Further complications arise when we consider how it effects Flesh Crafting. I'm not saying we'll give up on the idea of merging , but it will take some serious game balancing. It looks like we're going to have to re-balance and re-assess all existing undead classes to make animals work anyway. In your concept of "merging" are you suggesting the player should have animal minions AND lycanthrope (man/animal hybrid) minions? I will say that there will be no werewolves or classic beasts in Lord Of Decay. Our vision is to do away with classic enemies e.g. werewolves, vampires, stone golems, giant spiders, etc. We want to create a unique experience with twisted Void Denizens instead. I can't talk too much about that now as we are still designing them. |
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Post by Darth Cameroth on Jan 11, 2016 15:55:53 GMT 10
yeah my concept of merging animals and minions would make something like a Lycanthrope except more undead looking however. Perhaps for some reason the souls of animals and men are incompatible, would it be possible to have a Flesh Crafting system where you can make a new undead animal comprised of different parts. Perhaps we can discuss some even cooler things when the void denizens come along more.
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Post by Damian on Jan 14, 2016 11:28:35 GMT 10
yeah my concept of merging animals and minions would make something like a Lycanthrope except more undead looking however. Perhaps for some reason the souls of animals and men are incompatible, would it be possible to have a Flesh Crafting system where you can make a new undead animal comprised of different parts. Perhaps we can discuss some even cooler things when the void denizens come along more. Scott and I have discussed the concept of merging before. Unfortunately we have decided that it would add months of development time and cost too much to develop a system that does it "right". Sorry. It's in our list for a potential Lord Of Decay II feature. |
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Post by Darth Cameroth on Jan 14, 2016 14:34:18 GMT 10
Either way i am hyped for this and believe and hope it will be successful enough to spawn a dark sequel.
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Post by shadowbroker on Mar 17, 2016 7:30:32 GMT 10
how about a abomination minion thats kind of like whats in the undercity in world of warcraft a patchwork of bodies sown together? or like the old frankenstein movie. or a mix of animal bodie parts meshed with human so you can have true abominations.
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Post by Damian on Mar 17, 2016 11:46:22 GMT 10
how about a abomination minion thats kind of like whats in the undercity in world of warcraft a patchwork of bodies sown together? or like the old frankenstein movie. or a mix of animal bodie parts meshed with human so you can have true abominations. Abominations can also make use of Flesh Crafting which allows you to stitch on body parts from fallen enemies. I have not spoken about it yet, but Flesh Crafting 2.0 will allow you to change the appearance of the limbs too. Limbs can be skeletal, mummified, fleshy, rotten, etc. That should achieve what you are talking about. If we can pull it off that is |
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